thedarkestnightmod: (Default)
[personal profile] thedarkestnightmod posting in [community profile] darkestnightex
This post is specifically to discuss our questions about the freeforms. A post about the remaining fandoms will go up next. We'd also like to ask your help finding duplicate meanings in the tagset - we're going through it ourselves, but there are always some we might miss.

Please feel free to ask any questions about the freeform tags you might have here.

Beneath the Hill - what does this mean?

 
Debauching an idol - can you explain this one in more depth?
 
Fucklibrary - what does this mean?
Going On A Big Adventure Didn't Solve All Your Mundane Problems - can you explain how this is dark?
 
If You Can't Beat Them Join Them - can you explain how this is dark?
 

Macro/Micro -
can you explain how this is dark?
 

monster cock
- is this referring to a very large cock or the cock of a monster?
 

Obstructive Bureaucracy -
can you explain how this is dark?
 

room for one more
- what does this mean?
 

Size Kink
- can you explain how this is dark?
 

Special Forces
- can you explain how this is dark?
 

strangers on a train
- what does this mean?
 

Turn-coats/snitches
- would Traitors be an acceptable tag?
 

Used a cocksleeve/living condom
- would Living Condom be an acceptable tag?

Edit 7/25: Thank you everyone! The mods are discussing these and we'll be finalizing the freeforms soon.

Date: 2017-07-25 02:57 am (UTC)
the_rck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_rck
'Beneath the Hill' or 'Under the Hill' is used in certain folklore to talk about the realm of the Fair Folk. It usually goes along with rules about not eating or drinking anything from that realm while you're there or you'll be trapped there forever and a lot of environmental things alien to the human world and things that look lovely but are actually traps. Time tends to flow differently there so that a day can be a century in the real world or years only seconds.

People can get kidnapped or tricked into entering or can venture in on their own. Getting out again alive is much, much harder.

So ensnared in a certain particular alternate world with strong connections to the regular world.

Date: 2017-07-25 03:00 am (UTC)
rubylily: Akari/Luna, Day Break Illusion (❋ Moonflower)
From: [personal profile] rubylily
Under freeforms, there are Breathplay, Choking/breath control/breathplay, and Choking. I would suggest keeping Breathplay and Choking separate.

"Strangers on a train" is probably a trope inspired by the film or novel of the same name.

Date: 2017-07-25 08:05 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Not the person who nominated it, but I'd have assumed that Strangers on a train meant "raped by" strangers on a train, so I think it definitely needs clarificication.

Date: 2017-07-25 03:09 am (UTC)
the_rck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_rck
Oh, and I didn't nominate it, but 'obstructive bureaucracy' is making me think of 'Brazil' as an example of it being dark.

Date: 2017-07-25 12:01 pm (UTC)
artemis10002000: (Default)
From: [personal profile] artemis10002000
Not nominator either, but it makes me think of situations where you technically *have* rights, but actually getting legal protection, or even getting the things you need to survive is impossible because it's just one giant endless fight with more and more obstacles put in your way. Your enemy is not a singular person, it's the system you live in. It's inescapable, and you are powerless against it.
Edited Date: 2017-07-25 12:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-07-25 05:37 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Going On A Big Adventure Didn't Solve All Your Mundane Problems" is intended for examining the unresolved troubles that canon swept under the rug in order to tie everything up in a neat fairytale ending. Basically, you had problems at home, then you left home to go on an adventure that you thought would change everything, but broadening your horizons and learning Important Life Lessons doesn't necessarily solve those old problems that are still waiting for you when you get home again. Like, you went off and rescued your husband who got stolen by the faeries, and the two of you are all ready for your happily ever after, but then you get home and find out that you both lost your jobs because you dropped off the face of the earth for a few months, and your neighbors who always hated you still hate you, probably now more than ever because your absence let your yard turn into an overgrown mess which they think is bringing down the property values, and your parents are still fighting and might not have even noticed you were gone, etc.

Date: 2017-07-25 06:00 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
For "If You Can't Beat Them Join Them," the hero gives up and joins the villain's side, either because abandoning your values is the only way to survive when the villain is so much stronger than you and there's the (probably futile) hope you might be able to work some change from within, or because the two sides are so evenly matched that physically you could just keep fighting each other to a stalemate again and again forever but you're mentally exhausted and staying pure is so much more difficult than being corrupt so you just say, "fuck it," and switch sides to get a taste of the good life, morals be damned.

Date: 2017-07-25 06:18 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm not the one who nominated "room for one more," but there are a lot of variations on an urban legend/folktale where a person has a dream featuring a death omen, like a hearse with multiple coffins in it or something similar, and the hearse driver looks at the dreamer and tells them, "there's room for one more." The person wakes up, shakes off the dream, goes about their daily life, and then encounters a situation like a nearly full elevator or crowded bus/subway/ferry. The elevator operator/bus driver/whatever, who looks exactly like the hearse driver from the dream, says, "there's room for one more." Terrified, the person refuses to get in and decides to take the stairs/walk to work/whatever. The person then either personally witnesses or later hears a news report about a terrible accident that killed everyone aboard, and the person realizes that they would have been among the dead if not for their dream.

Date: 2017-07-25 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
If that's the intent of the tag, maybe it could be merged with the existing "premonition of death," which is understandable without knowing the specific tale?

Date: 2017-07-25 07:30 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
all the way through, Forced Testicle Impregnation - what do these refer to?

Maybe these could all be merged into something like Enduring/Volunteering for Pain, Torture or Rape to Protect Other Character? That way, requesters could specify without using up more than one slot for much the same thing (or rape could be separated out).

Character Volunteers For Torture/Rape/etc. In Order To Protect Other Character
Enduring Pain to Protect Another
Enduring Rape to Protect Another
Enduring Torture to Protect Another
Tortured to Protect Someone Else

Comes Back Wrong and came back wrong seem like the same thing

Characters forced to have sex as entertainment of third party and Forced to have sex for entertainment of third party

Public Use As a Legal Form of Punishment and Public use as legal punishment for crime

Date: 2017-07-25 11:49 am (UTC)
artemis10002000: (Default)
From: [personal profile] artemis10002000
Personally I'd prefer torture and rape to be kept separate, but otherwise, yes please merge these, mods.

Date: 2017-07-25 07:47 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
all the way through - This is where typically a tentacle, but any sort of long dick will do, goes in one one end and comes out the other (like goes in the butt and comes out the mouth or vice versa).
Forced Testicle Impregnation -Typically tentacles or something else lay eggs/live spawn in the testicles through urethral rape.

Date: 2017-07-25 08:01 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sorry, this was meant as a reply to the previous comment.

Date: 2017-07-25 11:27 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
OP thanks you for the clarifications!

Date: 2017-07-25 08:01 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Fucklibrary - This is a concept that comes from ffa. The basic idea is that their are libraries where people can check out people instead of books for sex. Beyond that it can be interpreted a lot of ways, like the "books" go through training to learn their "plot", and could include stuff like dehumanizations, etc.

Macro/Micro - Would Forced Macro/Micro be acceptable? I'm specially interested in it related to rape as a type of extreme size kink.

monster cock - Either definition is acceptable, but I was meaning the literal cock of a monster.

Used a cocksleeve/living condom - I worry that people wouldn't understand what that means on its own, but you can go ahead if you want.

Date: 2017-07-25 01:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Could "Alternate Universe - Villain Wins" and "Bad Guys Win" be merged?

There's also "Presumed Character's Death" and "Presumed Dead"

"loss of powers" and "removal of special powers"

Date: 2017-07-25 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I went through these while working on my letter, and I had some questions/thoughts about several tags. Forgive my ignorance if I conflate or misunderstand anything!

"AU — post-apocalypse" and "post-apocalypse survival"— There's a slight difference between these two, but I don't think it's really necessary as people will be able to tell it's an AU if someone requests "post-apocalypse survival" in a non-apocalypse canon.

"AU — espionage" and "espionage" — Maybe change the AU to the canonical tag "AU — spies and secret agents" and let "espionage" be for in-universe style espionage? I'm not sure.

We have "aftermath of torture" and "aftermath of possession" and "aftermath of violence" but then "rape aftermath." I know it's extremely nitpicky but I would love if they were all formatted the same way. Also, are "rape aftermath" and "rape recovery" different enough to need two different tags for them? I feel like recovery is part of aftermath but I'm not opposed to keeping them separate if people really want them separate. Same with "recovery process after torture."

How exactly are things like "corporal punishment," "prostitution," "occult," and "villain wins" alternate universes, per se? Those don't need an AU to exist in most canons, and the latter is probably going to be more of a canon divergence in most cases. (also, we probably don't need "AU — prostitution" and "AU — cop & prostitute" both, right?)

"Blood kink" and "bloodplay"—what's the difference? Could they be combined?

"Bad guys made them do it," "manipulated by the bad guys," "fuck or die," "forced to commit rape," "something made them do it," etc. Obviously there are some differences, but surely a couple of these could be consolidated, right?

"Forced to fight" and "forced to fight to the death" — is the distinction of "fighting to the death" important enough to keep two definitions here?

Are "hero becomes the villain" and "hero-villain reversal" different things, or could they be combined? I'm not familiar with the latter term.

Could "humans being considered animals" and "aliens keeping humans as pets" be combined into "humans treated like animals/pets"?

What is "living piss"?

Could anything in "Loss of powers" and "AU — no powers" and "removal of special powers" and "temporary removal of special powers" and "magical abilities bound" be consolidated?

"Mind fuck" and "mind games": what's the difference?

"Ethical dilemmas" and "moral dilemmas": again, what's the difference?

"Insanity" vs. "mind break" vs. "mental breakdown" vs. "mental health issues"—are all of these distinct enough to keep separate?

"Serious injuries" vs. "major character injury"—what's the difference?

"Rape" vs. "sexual assault"—is there a difference?

Do we really need separate tags for "smuggling" and "smugglers"? I feel like one implies the other...

Date: 2017-07-25 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Living piss is exactly what it sounds like. Ex. http://archiveofourown.org/works/4928557

As the nominator of mind break I would be very unhappy for it to be grouped with any of the others.

Date: 2017-07-25 07:17 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I like the general trend you seem to be suggesting here of removing the "Alternate Universe" designation for a lot of these -- that makes the resulting tag useful for canons where the element in question exists, and the AU part is implied when the tag is used for a canon where the element doesn't come up.

Seconding the desire to keep "mind break" separate, as that's a kink concept for the point where a victim loses the will/desire to resist what's being done to them, & very separate from serious/played-straight approaches to any kind of mental health problem.

Date: 2017-07-25 07:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

I'm cool with that, I just wasn't sure if it was the same thing as "mental breakdown" for example.

Date: 2017-07-25 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Two characters being forced to fight is definitely not the same thing as them being forced to fight to the death. The two scenarios have very different expectations placed on them as to what the outcome might/will be.

Date: 2017-07-25 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Also, I think "Hero-Villain Reversal" is a scenario where the hero becomes the villain and the villain becomes the hero, while "Hero Becomes the Villain" is just... the hero becoming the villain, possibly on the same side as the villain.

Date: 2017-07-25 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I would be unhappy to see post-apocalypse survival go in favor of post apocalypse, to be honest. I'm aiming to the survival in a post-apocalyptic alternate realty, I'm not really interested in a story about dystopy o worldbuilding that could be requested/offered with post-apocalypse.

Date: 2017-07-25 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Oops, this was meant to go as a reply to a comment above.

Date: 2017-07-25 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Loss of powers and AU no powers are two very different tropes. The first could be for example a canon divergent AU where for example Flash gets hit with a beam that makes him losing his speed-powers and he turns back to be temporary or permanently a normal human being. While a AU no powers is similar to a Mundane AU scenario, where none of the characters have or ever had superpowers in the first place.

Date: 2017-07-25 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Argh! Why am I so bad at this tonight. I'm really sorry! :(

Date: 2017-07-26 02:20 am (UTC)
the_rck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_rck
'Hero becomes the villain' has a person starting as a hero and going wrong. 'Hero-Villain reversal' has the good guys starting out as bad guys and the bad guys as good and might include the idea that the heroes only think they're good guys but actually aren't.

Date: 2017-07-26 09:07 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I was the 'Debauching an idol' nominator. I'm open to the phrasing being changed if needed, but what I had in mind was something along this vein: A admires/idolises B in canon, and in

'Debauching an idol' - A idealises B and sleeps with them either to bring B down to 'their level' or just through not seeing B as a full person but rather as some idealised form.

Date: 2017-07-30 01:47 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Can "forced to rape" and "forced to commit rape" be merged into the same tag?

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